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	<title>Comments on: Feminism Kills Again!</title>
	<link>http://ancarett.com/?p=188</link>
	<description></description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2010 20:10:16 +0000</pubDate>
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 		<title>Comment on Feminism Kills Again! by: ancarett</title>
		<link>http://ancarett.com/?p=188#comment-761</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Apr 2006 12:49:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://ancarett.com/?p=188#comment-761</guid>
					<description>Dave, thanks for commenting! I agree with you that, on one level, Wolf is correct when she says that the face of volunteerism has changed. But she seems to suggest that we could/should turn back the clock and do it selectively -- that women can &quot;choose&quot; to leave their careers or ratchet them down for some sort of public good and to restore this historical status quo.

She's reading the history wrong in terms of how we came to rely on women's unpaid labour outside the home in schools, politics and charities -- women's domination of volunteer organizations a hundred years ago wasn't an active choice on the part of many women or society as a whole but one forced upon many educated and ambitious women due to the systemic barriers against other work. Nineteenth century women couldn't work as lawyers, but they could apply their skills to organizing their husband's political campaign, household or affinity, for instance. And I suspect that we're talking about a very small number of women with the leisure and social cachet to run these organizations -- many working-class women were working for wages or taking in piece-work, married or not.

And, furthermore, if one goes back a century or two beforehand, one finds fewer and fewer women in any sort of voluntary leadership roles. Those were dominated by &quot;men of the cloth&quot; in many Western countries, whether Catholic priests or Protestant ministers, who, alongside other privileged men, kept the administration of much charitable aid and organization a male domain.

So, rather than thinking about &quot;replacing women volunteers&quot; (which usually gets people thinking things like &quot;how can we stop women from doing what they're doing now and go back to what they were doing then&quot;) can we think about &quot;what are the jobs that need to be done, and how can we ensure that&quot;? And less about the end of sisterhood, too, while we're at it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Dave, thanks for commenting! I agree with you that, on one level, Wolf is correct when she says that the face of volunteerism has changed. But she seems to suggest that we could/should turn back the clock and do it selectively &#8212; that women can &#8220;choose&#8221; to leave their careers or ratchet them down for some sort of public good and to restore this historical status quo.</p>
	<p>She&#8217;s reading the history wrong in terms of how we came to rely on women&#8217;s unpaid labour outside the home in schools, politics and charities &#8212; women&#8217;s domination of volunteer organizations a hundred years ago wasn&#8217;t an active choice on the part of many women or society as a whole but one forced upon many educated and ambitious women due to the systemic barriers against other work. Nineteenth century women couldn&#8217;t work as lawyers, but they could apply their skills to organizing their husband&#8217;s political campaign, household or affinity, for instance. And I suspect that we&#8217;re talking about a very small number of women with the leisure and social cachet to run these organizations &#8212; many working-class women were working for wages or taking in piece-work, married or not.</p>
	<p>And, furthermore, if one goes back a century or two beforehand, one finds fewer and fewer women in any sort of voluntary leadership roles. Those were dominated by &#8220;men of the cloth&#8221; in many Western countries, whether Catholic priests or Protestant ministers, who, alongside other privileged men, kept the administration of much charitable aid and organization a male domain.</p>
	<p>So, rather than thinking about &#8220;replacing women volunteers&#8221; (which usually gets people thinking things like &#8220;how can we stop women from doing what they&#8217;re doing now and go back to what they were doing then&#8221;) can we think about &#8220;what are the jobs that need to be done, and how can we ensure that&#8221;? And less about the end of sisterhood, too, while we&#8217;re at it!
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 		<title>Comment on Feminism Kills Again! by: dave s</title>
		<link>http://ancarett.com/?p=188#comment-758</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Apr 2006 10:24:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://ancarett.com/?p=188#comment-758</guid>
					<description>Wolf's not wrong.  That doesn't mean that there's some justification to turn the clock back, but it does mean that some social functions which used to be accomplished by women volunteers either won't happen or have to be done some other way.  My wife is a lawyer, works for a big firm, makes a good living, and is utterly out of time if there is a call for someone to work on a schools committee or do a teacher lunch during the teacher work days.  Not there.  In my community there used to be several (largely women volunteer staffed) committees to work on County policy, feed into the political process.  They are largely gone now, and most decisions are made without a lot of citizen input, in any real way.  The local Democratic Party partially replaces the old voluntary groups.
Things are better than they were.  If I go off the rails, become unbearable, my wife has the resources to tell me to take a hike.  If I get disabled, or she does, the other can keep the family going.  But I think Wolf's is a good lens to train on our situation, in thinking how to replace the functions women volunteers used to fill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Wolf&#8217;s not wrong.  That doesn&#8217;t mean that there&#8217;s some justification to turn the clock back, but it does mean that some social functions which used to be accomplished by women volunteers either won&#8217;t happen or have to be done some other way.  My wife is a lawyer, works for a big firm, makes a good living, and is utterly out of time if there is a call for someone to work on a schools committee or do a teacher lunch during the teacher work days.  Not there.  In my community there used to be several (largely women volunteer staffed) committees to work on County policy, feed into the political process.  They are largely gone now, and most decisions are made without a lot of citizen input, in any real way.  The local Democratic Party partially replaces the old voluntary groups.<br />
Things are better than they were.  If I go off the rails, become unbearable, my wife has the resources to tell me to take a hike.  If I get disabled, or she does, the other can keep the family going.  But I think Wolf&#8217;s is a good lens to train on our situation, in thinking how to replace the functions women volunteers used to fill.
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